Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 11th 2012, 6:54pm
Dion sir,
Before we opt for another forum, I would really appreciate that you post a paragraph or so explaining to us which forum version we must choose. I have contacted you earlier & I recall you emphasized on phpbb3 rather than on mybb. Though I will go with your decision, provided that you are teacher to me atleast I am especially alarmed when I google comparison b/w these two versions ...& guess what to a newcomer myBB seems quiet appealing. Major concerns regarding the antiquated phpbb3 (as majority put it) is the lack of

* AJAX (major concern)
* Poor editor layout (including quick reply)
* Manual/Buggy installations/uninstallations (even with MODx)

I would really appreciate that before any tutorial explain us why you choose phpbb3 & why we should choose it (a devoted thread will be appreciated)

...& by the way I am particularly interested in 'Thnx mod' a similar thing here won't bite
@ http://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/thanks_for_posts/
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Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 11th 2012, 9:37pm
The difference between myBB and phpBB3 is their intended audience.

myBB is designed for the relatively-computer-illerate who want a product where they can click a button and install a nice-looking board. phpBB3 is designed by hackers for hackers. It starts out somewhat crude, but its potential is much higher than one can ever achieve with myBB. It also has a much better database design and permissions system than myBB, and its security is infintely superior.

This phpBB3 board has a more extensive implementation of AJAX than I've seen on ANY discussion board. The Quick Reply editor here is better than any Quick Reply editor I've seen on other discussion boards. But this is an "antiquated" phpBB3 board...or so say those who don't understand how to add features to a phpBB3 board that myBB owners can only dream of having.

The installation issue with phpBB3 also falls into this category. It actually makes you THINK and do some things. It's not a one-click install.

Updates...well, that's an issue with phpBB3 and will forever be an issue with the phpBB product line. The phpBB Group is a victim of its own success. It was the first open-source bulletin board software that was easy to modify by non-hackers, and it has a library of hacks, MODs, and styles that is the envy of every other BB software maker. But having so much third-party support has made it difficult to update the core product without breaking some of those hacks/MODs/styles.

I guess it comes down to a decision: do you want a board that is easy to install and looks pretty good, but isn't (and never will be) what you want....OR...do you want a board that takes time to install and set up, but it can be set up EXACTLY the way you want?

I will split your post, and my response, into a separate topic.
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Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 14th 2012, 10:04am
My first post on this new board, exciting :)

Anyway, here's my take on this topic, as i've tried and looked through both board types source codes, and made small features for both BB packages.

The Phpbb group had their thinking caps on the whole way. Their PHP and server-scripts (the cogs of any BB software) is far superior. Not to mention they designed a pretty extensive easy to use template parser, which pretty hit the template engine goal bang on (not too over the top with a completely new syntax, but with plenty of easy to use features).
(As a side note, I'll be releasing my own PHP template engine very soon, which uses permission tags in an ever more familiar sense)

I could carry on praising Phpbb3, but I'd rather get on to why MyBB is inferior.

First off, MyBB stores its templates in the database, which on its own isn't necessarily a bad thing, however the deal is, they are querying the database everytime for a new template, which on a BB board that requires queries for A LOT of things, you'd kinda want to cut down. If your going to be fetching quite a few templates fetch all the ones you need in a single statement and just sotre them in an array.
SELECT title,value FROM template_table WHERE title = 'index' OR 'whos_online' OR 'forum_list'

Getting all three [example] templates at once, loop through results storing them in a $templates array.
So my first point, there template system is expensive on loading speeds.

Secondly, they aren't using replacements for their template "Variables", but instead CONSTANTLY, and I mean A LOT, using Variable Interpolation, which is requiring all strings to be parsed for variables. Simple variable concatenation is much less expensive.

And thirdly, these template string are having to be evaluated once pulled from the database, in order for these variables to be inserted in the string. And well, the eval() function is well known for being a bad thing.

Anyway, personally I'd save my database the grief of MyBB, and would use Phpbb3.
Feel free to disagree :P
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Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 14th 2012, 11:56am
Glad you could make it here!

First, I do hope you didn't re-invent the wheel with your template engine, because the one in phpBB3 can be converted to stand-alone form. I've used it for some test scripts and can confirm it works, and works extremely well. Here's the relevant info: http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... &t=1557455

And yes, I agree, the database is a bad place to store templates. You're much better off keeping the compiled templates in the file system and allowing the server to utilize its system cache.
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Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 14th 2012, 4:50pm
Thanks :)

I did, pretty much, whilst still keeping the similarities of most template engines aka {VARS}.
It was mainly a project of my own for one of my own sites, but its proven to be very useful with small sites and projects, for a large project, I'd definitely choose to use the PHPBB3 one, thanks for the link!
It uses tags for permissions like so:
{GUEST} guest content {/GUEST}, or {ADMIN} admin stuff {/ADMIN}, whilst its not as comprehensive as phpbb3's it does provide a decent amount of permission setting with things like {GROUP1} or {BANNED}. But yes as I mentioned, a personal tool for smaller projects, probably a bit more lightweight to include() too.

(EDIT: Maybe a thread idea for the server-side area of this forum, I might share how its possible to make a simple template parser and how they work)

I'd have to say though, storing templates isn't that bad a thing. Maybe my opinion more than fact, you know a lot more than I do.
Consider a templates table with fields 'title' and 'value'.
As an example:
function getTemplates( $titles )
{
$q = 'SELECT * FROM templates WHERE title=';
$titles = explode(",",$titles);
foreach($titles as $title)
{
$q .= "'$title' OR title=";
}
$qry = mysql_query($q);

$ret = array();
while($r = mysql_fetch_assoc($qry))
{
$ret[$r[title]] = $r[value]
}
return $ret;
}

$templates = getTemplates('index,forum,header,footer');

echo $templates[header];

//bla bla bla

echo $templates[footer];


Obviously slightly unrealistic example, but my point is, any amount of templates can be fetched from a database in one swoop at the start of PHP script.

This was not too say file stored templates are a bad thing, I think they are great, but rather to say database templates can be well used too. Opinion?

PS, yes I'm one of those people that lays their PHP out like that :P
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Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 14th 2012, 5:45pm
One of what people? You put opening braces on their own line, as do about half of all people writing PHP. The other half put opening braces at the end of the conditional. Neither is right or wrong...just different and equal ways of accomplishing the same thing. ;)

Anyway, when I look at your code, what I see is that this method:

readfile('header.tpl');

//bla bla bla

readfile('footer.tpl');

would be slightly slower if the template files aren't in the system cache, but MUCH faster if they are. Since most boards are busy enough to keep such files in the system cache, performance should be better when using the file system. Plus, it reduces a couple dozen lines of code down to two!

FYI, if you change from using OR in the query to:

$q = 'SELECT * FROM templates WHERE title IN (' . $titles . ')';

and changed the passing variable to:

"'index','forum','header','footer'"

the query would execute much faster.

Also FYI, it seems to me that your template idea has the makings of a great word censor if you pursued that angle...
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Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 14th 2012, 5:57pm
I've ran into a few who hate that syntax :P

Thanks for pointing out the tip with the IN Operator, it had never occured to me.

Thanks for the info, a good discussion!
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Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 14th 2012, 9:50pm
Dion & LG:
Thnx for comprehensive replies. Though I may not be able to comprehend your technical details of comparing these two packages but as a user & even more as a moderator of vB I want to share experience (bad it may be)

When I first installed & ran phpbb3 I saw several BASIC features missing. I mean take a look from a user point of view those variable that you are discussing that are running behind the screens isn't much use to him....
what HE WANT:

* Multi-Quote feature
* No page refreshing while saying thnx
* No page refreshing while using quick editor/ editing post
* ...& hell how did phpbb3 missed button images for its editor I mean that IS lame on their part
* No numbered links to reference??
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Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 15th 2012, 12:25am
All the things you mention can be added to phpBB3 with available MODs/styles. Remember my original comment:

phpBB3 is designed by hackers for hackers. It starts out somewhat crude, but its potential is much higher than one can ever achieve with myBB.

If one decides to use phpBB3, one must make an investment in learning some basic programming, because it will take basic programming knowledge to add the MODs/styles.

Twice you mentioned removing page refreshes. You know what, that's the first tutorial for here! It's extremely easy to remove every one of those pages...
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Why is this board using phpBB3?
Posted March 15th 2012, 2:20am
ioncube said:
* No numbered links to reference??


I call this, :P
Hopefully see it soon in the server-side forum.
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